Transcript of violent assault by pastors of Victory Life Centre Perth under Reverend Margaret Court.

2015-03-27

This is a transcript with link to an audio recording provided as evidence to Western Australia Police (http://www.police.wa.gov.au).

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Transcript of audio recording:

Time: Sunday March 22, 2015 at approximately 09:59am in conjunction with an advertised public gathering

Location: Inside the church premises of Victory Life Centre Church in Perth, Australia.

Church Leader#1:: an anonymous church leader who presented himself with the name Johnny Cash.

Church Leader#2:: an anonymous church leader who presented himself with the name Jerry Lewis.

Church Leader#3:: an anonymous church leader who presented himself with the name Johnny Cash.

Torsten Nenzén: is a peaceful visitor who is absolutely innocent of any wrongdoing at Victory Life Centre Church in Perth, and who is absolutely innocent in relation to all excommunications by other churches.

Audio recording of physical assault, eviction and violent attack by church leaders:

(MP3) http://www.kyrkor.be/Victory-Life-Centre-Perth-violent-eviction-2015-03-22-MP3.mp3

(AMR) http://www.kyrkor.be/Victory-Life-Centre-Perth-violent-eviction-2015-03-22-AMR.amr

[Torsten had arrived early to a scheduled public “service” on a Sunday, March 22 2015, inside the “Pentecostal” Victory Life Centre in Perth, Australia. The church had announced their Sunday morning public “service” to begin at 10:00 am. Torsten had never visited this particular church before. When Torsten entered the church building, Torsten walked to the information counters to view their written material. An elderly lady behind the main information counter spoke with Torsten for a minute or two. After some time, while Torsten stood alone next to the information counter in the entrance lobby, an anonymous “Pentecostal” church leader of Victory Life Centre approached Torsten, and in an authoritarian and unfriendly manner demanded that Torsten must accompany the leader to the back of the building for a conversation with this anonymous church leader. Torsten replied that if this church leader had something that he wanted to say to Torsten, he should say it to Torsten where Torsten was currently standing. The “Pentecostal” leader started walking a few steps towards the back of the building expecting Torsten to follow him. Torsten did not follow, but remained exactly where he was standing next to the information counter. The “Pentecostal” leader then walked back against Torsten. Torsten guestured invitingly with an open palm towards an open spot three meters opposite from the information counter. The anonymous “Pentecostal” leader then moved towards that direction, as too did Torsten. The confronting “Pentecostal” leader and Torsten settled both the pairs of feet approximately two meters from the information counter. The “Pentecostal” leader then orally expressed, in his inadequately suppressed hostile manner, that he wanted to know Torsten’s intention because he had looked at Torsten’s website (“looked at your website”). Torsten immediately recognised the church leader’s antagonism against Torsten, and therefore Torsten took out his mobile phone from his shorts pocket with intention to audio-record an anticipated statement of eviction. At the same moment that Torsten took out his mobile phone from his pocket, the church leader threatened Torsten that if Torsten begins to record the conversation, the church leader would take Torsten’s mobile phone away from him. Torsten continued to focus his attention on his mobile phone to set the mobile audio recorder to commence an audio recording. Torsten finally commenced the audio recording and outstretched the mobile phone at chest height between the “Penteocostal” church leader and Torsten. The remaining conversation was audio recorded.]

[…]

TORSTEN: Are you asking me to leave?

CHURCH LEADER#1: I’m asking you to answer the question.

TORSTEN: Ok. Because you have a threatening demeanour.

TORSTEN: A threatening demeanour.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Whatever. I know who I am. Everyone knows who I am. You just come in here. We don’t want to feel that we are in that position.

TORSTEN: Can I … With whom am I speaking?

CHURCH LEADER#1: I’ve just told you who I’m speaking to.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Please leave.

TORSTEN: You want me to leave?

CHURCH LEADER#1: If you would like, yeah.

TORSTEN: If I would like? I came here not to leave.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Well, then I don’t know why you’re here for.

TORSTEN: Sorry?

CHURCH LEADER#1: I would like to know why you’re here.

TORSTEN: You threatened me that if I don’t take my phone away, you’re gonna take it away from me? Is that correct?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Hey? Are you seriously trying to manipulate those words before …

TORSTEN: You’re three guys standing next to me. I think that’s quite intimidating.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Ok. Well then just answer the question.

TORSTEN: You said that you looked at my website, and therefore you approached me?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Naah. Look. Why have you come to church today?

TORSTEN: You said that you looked at my website. And that’s why you, eh, you want to ask me questions? Is that correct?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Why have you come to church?

TORSTEN: Why would I go to any church? Same reason.

CHURCH LEADER#1: I don’t know. I am asking you the question.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Why have you come to our church today?

TORSTEN: Is this a Christian church? If it is a Christian church, then … I’m a Christian.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Why have you come to our church service?

TORSTEN: I’m a Christian, and I’m looking for a Christian church.

CHURCH LEADER#1: But you’re not from Perth, right?

TORSTEN: Sorry?

CHURCH LEADER#1: You’re not from Perth, right?

TORSTEN: Ok. Are only people from Perth allowed to enter?

CHURCH LEADER#1: No, you’re looking for a church. You don’t live in Perth.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Why are you at our church?

TORSTEN: Ok. I’m a Christian and I’m looking for a Christian church.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Why are you at our church?

TORSTEN: Well, it depends: Is this a Christian church?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Well, you would say, and I would say that it definitely is.

TORSTEN: Ok.

CHURCH LEADER#1: So why are you at our church? Why do you come into our meeting?

TORSTEN: Well, I’m a Christian …

[The anonymous Church Leader#1 interrupted.]

CHURCH LEADER#1: Where did you hear about our church?

TORSTEN: Sorry?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Where did you hear about us?

TORSTEN: Where did I hear about you? Well, I’m quite systematic in trying to find out if there are Christian churches.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Have you come here to check out … eh … and to …

CHURCH LEADER#2: On your way!

[One of the three anonymous, angry and intimidating church leaders who all stood intimately close to Torsten began to physically assault Torsten. Torsten orally objected to the physical assault.]

TORSTEN: Stop harassing me!

CHURCH LEADER#1: You are not allowed to record, and we have the right to stop you from recording. You haven’t got press on anything like that?

CHURCH LEADER#1: That’s ok. We just ask a simple question. Why have you come here?

TORSTEN: I just answered you: I’m a Christian and I’m looking for a Christian church?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Ok. Well I think you’re quite hostile and quite threatening to me, right now.

TORSTEN: You are reversing [inverting]. You approached me with hostile - with three guys … three guys …

CHURCH LEADER#1: I think you are very hostile and very threatening to me right now.

TORSTEN: You’re reversing [inverting] the truth.

CHURCH LEADER#1: It may be what you’re saying …

[Both the Church Leader#1 and Church Leader#2 had physically assaulted Torsten lightly, and the Church Leader#2 was continuing to physically harass Torsten while Torsten was trying to speak. Torsten objected to the continued physical assault of the church leaders with stern oral reprimands.]

TORSTEN: Stop touching me!!

TORSTEN: Stop …

CHURCH LEADER#2: Put your phone away or leave please. Now. It’s over.

TORSTEN: What is over?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Put your phone away please. And leave.

[Church Leader#2, with his furious eyes, then pushed in against Torsten to physically persuade Torsten to leave the church.]

TORSTEN: You look very threatening. You look like you’re gonna punch …

[The Church Leaders began squabbling unintelligibly.]

CHURCH LEADER#1: You have a recorder. We have a recording. So you can do what you like. If you like, ok, you are more than welcome to leave. But we actually are not going to have you going upstairs.

TORSTEN: Ok. Why not?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Because, you are very hostile and very threatening.

TORSTEN: No you are hostile.

CHURCH LEADER#1: You have a very demeanial [?demeaning?] look on your face right now, as if you’re up something. You’re recording us, for some reason. And it’s quite threatening. And because of the day and age right now, we’re not quite comfortable. We don’t actually know. You’re not answering the question. So we don’t …

TORSTEN: I’ve answered your question. You approached me. You’re three guys, standing in an intimidating way. [unintelligible squabble by leaders] And both of you have physically touched me.

CHURCH LEADER#2: Mate. You touched me?

TORSTEN: Excuse me?

CHURCH LEADER#2: You touched me.?

TORSTEN: I have never touched you.

CHURCH LEADER#1: We can disprove that.

TORSTEN: Now you’re making a … a liar.

[Church leaders squabbled unintelligibly with false accusations that Torsten would have touched the church leaders.]

TORSTEN: So you’re saying you have surveillance. So this is on camera. Not just on my audio recording. It’s on video right.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Look. This is what we do right. If you do not, if you are not happy, you are more than welcome to go. We’ve asked you several times. You obviously don’t believe in what we’re doing here. You don’t respect our authority or anything like that. Or our [?]. Or whatever we do at the church; our idea of looking after church. You don’t respect that. You’re quite threatening right now to us, ok. And we’re not comfortable with you going upstairs with that attitude. And we’re allowed to do that, don’t you see?

TORSTEN: Ok, so are you excommunicating me? Is that it?

CHURCH LEADER#1: What would you like me to say? Tell me what you would like me to say?

TORSTEN: I would like you to tell me the truth. And stop being …

CHURCH LEADER#1: At the present time, the way that you are very threatening and very sort of like, eh, eh, how you are? I’m not too sure we’re to think it is the right place for you to go upstairs.

TORSTEN: Is that your way of, eh, sugar-coating, eh, “You’re excommunicated.”?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Where did you get that from?

TORSTEN: Ok, so I’m here to attend the service. And are you saying that I’m not allowed to attend the service?

CHURCH LEADER#1: I am. I tell you what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna go ring somebody with a good authority. And I’m gonna act [?]

TORSTEN: And who is the person with good authority?

CHURCH LEADER#1: We’re gonna ring the police.

TORSTEN: Ok.

CHURCH LEADER#1: Ok. And I’m gonna ask you to move.

CHURCH LEADER#1: If you could wait here please and don’t move from anywhere else within this building, and stay right here, I’m just gonna get someone.

TORSTEN: What’s your name?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Johnny Cash.

TORSTEN: Johnny Cash? Is that your name?

TORSTEN: What’s his name?

CHURCH LEADER#3: Johnny Cash.

TORSTEN: Is that his name?

TORSTEN: What’s your name?

CHURCH LEADER#3: Johnny Cash.

TORSTEN: Ok. You’re all named Johnny Cash.

TORSTEN: And what’s you name?

CHURCH LEADER#2: Jerry Lewis.

TORSTEN: Jerry Lewis? Ok.

CHURCH LEADER#2: Absolutely.

[The voice of Church Leader#2 had begun to unmistakably correspond to his hateful eyes. (6:20 min)]

CHURCH LEADER#2: Don’t record me! Ok? I don’t want you to record my voice!

CHURCH LEADER#2: Turn it off or I’ll take it off you!

TORSTEN: No you will not touch me again.

CHURCH LEADER#2: You take it. Stop recording.

TORSTEN: You will not touch me again.

CHURCH LEADER#2: I won’t touch you because I didn’t touch you in the first place. Turn that off and stop recording my voice.

TORSTEN: Stop talking.

CHURCH LEADER#2: Now!

TORSTEN: I’m standing right here.

CHURCH LEADER#2: Now!

TORSTEN: As long as you talk you’re on the record.

CHURCH LEADER#2: Now! Turn that off!

CHURCH LEADER#1: All he wants to do is actually prove how wrong we all are right now. I gave the opportunity and I think we’re quite friendly.

TORSTEN: Oh you’re very friendly – you’re excommunicating and calling the police.

CHURCH LEADER#1: I actually quite, uh, worried about you actually.

TORSTEN: Mhmm… [sarcastic affirmation]

CHURCH LEADER#1: Yeah. I actually am. We don’t actually excommunicate anybody.

TORSTEN: Oh you don’t, you just call the police and ask me to leave.

CHURCH LEADER#1: You actually won’t do what we ask you to do. We’re concerned. And if we’re wrong then I would love to be no problem at all.

TORSTEN: And what’s your name?

CHURCH LEADER#1: Johnny Cash.

TORSTEN: Oh. Johnny Cash, Johnny Cash and Jerry Lewis.

CHURCH LEADER#1: You know, I’m just not comfortable telling you what my name is.

TORSTEN: Alright.

CHURCH LEADER#1: What’s your name?

TORSTEN: Have a nice day.

[Torsten immediately turned 180 degrees and walked away from the three church leaders in direction towards the main building entrance/exit; after that Torsten had stood in the exact same spot during the entire conversation. Torsten intended to walk away not only from the harassing and physically assaulting church leaders but to permanently leave their church building and premises. But along the route towards the exit/entrance, Torsten noticed on the wall towards the exit next to Torsten, a placard of photographs with subtitled names of the church staff. Therefore, Torsten stopped to view the placard on the wall. Torsten had stood alone facing the placard on the wall for a duration of less than ten seconds, when suddenly someone from behind violently pushed Torsten away from the placard. The initial forceful push against Torsten from behind followed by several recurring violent pushes against Torsten towards the exit. Torsten eventually managed to turn his body more towards the violent assailant and resist the pushes. Torsten then identified the violent assailant as Church Leader#2.]

TORSTEN: Stop pushing me!!

CHURCH LEADER#2: Get out now!

CHURCH LEADER#2: He is trying to find out our names. Now leave!

TORSTEN: Stop pushing me!!

CHURCH LEADER#1: We are allowed to stop him from doing that.

CHURCH LEADER#2: Go! Now!

TORSTEN: Stop pushing me!

CHURCH LEADER#2: Go!

TORSTEN: Stop pushing me!

CHURCH LEADER#2: Get out!

TORSTEN: You’re a crazy bastard.

CHURCH LEADER#2: You’re looking for names on the board and you’re not allowed to do it! Go!!

CHURCH LEADER#2: Now! Now! Go!!

CHURCH LEADER#1: Out! Or else we’re gonna tell the police of the threatening nature here. Alright. Because of what you’ve just done. You need to leave please.

TORSTEN: I’m going to report you.

TORSTEN: I’m going to report you to the police.

CHURCH LEADER#2: Good! Go now! They will be here. That’s fine!

CHURCH LEADER#2: Go!!!

TORSTEN: You have a demon in your eyes.

CHURCH LEADER#2: What are you saying?!

TORSTEN: You have a demon in your eyes.

CHURCH LEADER#2: What are you saying?!!!

TORSTEN: You have a demon in your eyes.

CHURCH LEADER#2: What are you saying to me?!!

TORSTEN: You have a demon in your eyes.

CHURCH LEADER#2: Get out!

CHURCH LEADER#1: You’re gonna get my name and everything outside, ok?

[Tosten continued to walk the remaining four meters straight towards the main exit/entrance, walked out of the building door, and walked briskly off the property of hostile Victory Life Centre; into safety of public property. Torsten clicked off his mobile phone recorder while walking away from the hostile church premises. As Torsten had neared the public sidewalk bordering the church property, the Church Leader#1 said behind Torsten’s back “If you stay on our property I won’t call the police.” Without turning around or speaking anything, Torsten continued the fast-paced walk, crossed to the opposite side of the street, and away from the violent church assailants.]