The Seventh-Day Adventist (SDA) Churches in Brisbane, Australia, differ most from the other Christian denominations by the SDA churches’ readiness to communicate, but in similarity with all other Christian denominations they too demonstrate suspicion and a damaging level of distrust. The character of SDA distrust is not conducive to attracting normal and healthy individuals into their programmes.

(http://auc.adventist.org.au)

The Seventh-Day Adventist (SDA) Churches in Brisbane are different from the other Christian denominations by their willingness to communicate, but in similarity with all other Christian churches in Brisbane, also the SDA denomination express unhealthy distrust of people.

There appears to be in both the Christian and Adventist churches, compared with secular society, an overrepresentation of unintellectual persons, naivité, hypocrisy, denial and falsehood.

Two email dialogues with Seventh-Day Adventist leaders in Brisbane, Australia, is read chronologically from the bottom upwards beneath, with the most recent email at the top:

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Hi Torsten,

Thanks for your reply.

My original comments were only in explanation. We have a duty of care to those in our trust, especially those who are vulnerable, as is reasonably required of all organisations.

To say we have a deficiency of trust in other people is quite a misunderstanding of the reality. However, as many people in our singles group have experienced relationship breakdown, we feel more comfortable to err on the side of caution.

If you are uncomfortable with these parameters, then perhaps you will need to find your fellowship elsewhere. We are just a part of the Body of Christ that grows across the boundaries of denominations. And if that ends up being your choice, then I certainly wish you well.

Blessings

Chris

Director

Adventist Relationship Ministries

South Queensland Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

cfoote@adventist.org.au

Mobile: 0416 146 468

We in the SQLD Conference are committed to Nurturing Spirit Filled Disciples in Healthy Growing Churches that are Reaching out and Connecting with their communities

Seventh Day Adventist in Queensland.

Director Chris Foote,

Thanks for replying to my email to you, and for taking your time to write such an exhaustive response.

Although it is clear that you have had an intention to assist and to explain, it is unfortunately equally clear from your reply that you and your Adventist organisation in Queensland have a deficiency of normal trust in other people. Maybe it is true that the SDA churches in Queensland, Australia, have negative experiences of single people. Maybe it is true that predatory and infiltrating individuals are attracted to the Seventh Day Adventist churches. Or maybe it is true that Seventh Day Adventist leaders are cultishly suspicious of people.

SDA Director Chris Foote, I am unsure how you think it might be of my interest as a Christian to attend a group where the group leaders of Adventists think of themselves as superior to mere Christians. And I especially cannot see how you might believe that it might be of my interest to attend a group who harbour such grave suspicion towards other people as reflected in parts of your email response. It also seems to come across in your reply a particular distrust towards me, as you wrote the following:

·          “An important thing that I need to clarify with you. Our Singles Ministry is in NO WAY intended to provide a dating service, nor does it exist to encourage couples to get together.”

·          “Safety is an important focus”

·          “Her reason for not telling you more is based on our commitment to the provision of safety”

·          “We have experienced in the past some predatory individuals who have infiltrated our singles groups with inappropriate intentions, and in some cases has led to abuse or violation of personal boundaries occurring.”

If those suspicions are is in your head that I could be a predatory individual who seek to infiltrate the Seventh Day Adventists in order to abuse and violate people, then your SDA churches in Queensland do have grave problems relating to Christians.

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi Torsten

In reply to your email, let me first explain the singles events etc.

At this stage, we are still in the relatively early stages of development in our Singles Ministry program. Some years ago, there had been a ministry happening, however, for a period of a few years it went into recess for various reasons.

Under our current strategy, we have been working on a ministry specifically targeting those in the age-bracket starting with mid-thirties and upwards. Once this is well established, we will be turning our attention to the younger age-bracket. The social needs for these two broad age-groups is quite different in some aspects, and too broad to combine together.

So, our current ministry for mid-thirties and upwards is named QASAM – Queensland Adventist Single Adult Ministry. The organising committee has planned 2 or 3 camps during the year, with guest speakers presenting topics of relevance, plus the camp setting provides a great opportunity for fellowship and the development of a network of friends with common interests. The most recent of these was held over Easter weekend at Camp Mudjimba on the Sunshine Coast.

There is also a Rally day, scheduled for Sabbath, 9 August which will be held at Garden City Adventist Church hall. There will be a guest speaker taking the main presentation, and we will be attempting to connect with other Adventist Singles groups around Australia via a web-conference. This will potentially happen as well on a few other Sabbaths around that time, as similar rallies are held in other states around Australia.

At the annual convention at Dakabin in late September – “Big Camp” – we have a consistent schedule of events during the week for Adventist Singles including: a special themed dinner, a fellowship “café” each evening, and workshops with guests presenting relevant seminars for singles.

As well as this, from time to time, QASAM singles get together on Sabbaths for Church ( such as at Mitchelton on May 31) and that often extends to having lunch together or sometimes doing some other social activity.

An important thing that I need to clarify with you. Our Singles Ministry is in NO WAY intended to provide a dating service, nor does it exist to encourage couples to get together. The purpose of Adventist Singles Ministries is always to provide a safe and supportive context for single adults to fellowship, be spiritually nurtured and relationally informed, and to enjoy recreation. Safety is an important focus, as we recognise that many single adults feel very vulnerable, especially those who have gone through the breakdown of a marriage or other close relationship.

In your email you asked some specifics, which I will attempt to answer:

What is the meeting at the end of May about? Is it a special opportunity for Christian singles to meet and communicate with each other, or is it merely a regular Sabbath “service” event to listen to someone speak?

As Haydee mentioned in her response to you, there is an invitation for Singles to do Church together at Mitchelton Church on Sabbath, 31 May. Typically, this may also include people bringing lunch with them, and then joining together for a picnic lunch in a park, or perhaps at the Church hall or at someone’s place if the weather is cool or inclement. As Sabbath is the common time when Adventist singles are not working, etc., it provides the most convenient time to get together in a safe setting. I understand from Haydee’s email response to you below, that you are a Christian but not an Adventist. That’s why I have mentioned this point, as you may not realise the key place, “culturally”, that Sabbath has for Seventh-day Adventists. As Adventists share so much in their belief and world-view, the time of fellowship together in Sabbath School and Church Worship is a key part of the fabric of life.

Are there occasions of fellowship in your congregation where also single Christians in the age bracket 30-39 (maybe also late 20’s) gather and communicate? Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups in your church that I can attend and develop friendships?

The simple answer to this is that there currently is no targeted ministry for this age-group. Some local Adventists Churches may have fellowships or small groups operating that are specific to this age-group but if so, these are a part of that local church’s ministry and not under the Conference-wide organisation. You would have to discover that yourself by attending those Churches. It would be more likely to occur at a larger Church, perhaps the size of Pine Rivers or Caboolture, but I don’t know if either of these Churches currently have any in operation. Once again, you will need to discover that for yourself.

Now, regarding the response you received from Haydee, our QASAM leader. As I mentioned above, safety is a prime aspect of the ministries we are developing for singles. Haydee did provide you details of the next time when Singles are invited to come together – at Mitchelton Adventist Church, late in May. Her reason for not telling you more is based on our commitment to the provision of safety for vulnerable people. As she mentioned to you, you are not a person known to us, and therefore not known to be safe or not. We have experienced in the past some “predatory” individuals who have infiltrated our singles groups with inappropriate intentions, and in some cases has led to abuse or violation of personal boundaries occurring. Therefore, Haydee was correct in suggesting that you first come to the get-together at Mitchelton Church, as this would give the group the opportunity to get to know you and to feel comfortable about extending the invitation further. This mostly concerns the commitment of QASAM to keeping our ministry events safe for vulnerable people. I trust that you can understand what I have outlined to you.

It may be that some of these things were unclear from Haydee’s email, as English is not Haydee’s first language, however, a careful reread should reveal her true intent.

In re-reading your emails to both Haydee and me, you have come across as a little abrupt and demanding, which I feel may also have made Haydee a little reluctant to share more as these are not the attributes that convey relational safety. I may have misinterpreted that, as you may well be quite different in person, one reason why I invited you to meet with me in person – and your reluctance to do so doesn’t help!

So, if you are transparent in your intentions and are genuinely seeking fellowship with other Christians in a safe environment, the Sabbath get-together at Mitchelton may well be a good starting point. Yes, it will include a regular Sabbath School and Worship Service, but may also give the opportunity to fellowship and connect with other Christian Singles. I can’t say how many may come, as that is dependent upon many factors.

I hope this answers your questions.

Kind regards

Chris

Pastor Chris Foote

Director of Adventist

Relationship and Humanitarian Ministries

for the South Queensland Conference

of Seventh-day Adventists

cfoote@adventist.org.au

Mobile: 0416 146 468

Chris Foote,

Hi,

Thanks for replying.

A meeting is not necessary to simply answer my question regarding occasions where also Christian singles can fellowship. Neither is a meeting necessary to explain your leader's assertion that the leader has a responsibility to not provide information to me.

Just answer my question, please. And please also explain the response from your SDA leader.

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi Torsten

My suggestion is that at some time we arrange an appointment to meet when I can explain the current singles ministry options as they are at present.

I am back at work from this Monday.

What times would you possibly be available during this coming week?

Regards

Chris Foote

Director, Adventist Relationship Ministries Sth Qld

Chris Foote,

Hi.

After your recommendation to me that I should contact the leader of the SDA Queensland Relationship Ministry, Haydee D’Albret, it seems that your SDA leader is unable/unwilling to provide sufficient information. Your SDA leader asserts that she “has a responsibility not to give [information] to anyone who asks”.

What is the meeting at the end of May about? Is it a special opportunity for Christian singles to meet and communicate with each other, or is it merely a regular Sabbath “service” event to listen to someone speak?

Are there occasions of fellowship in your congregation where also single Christians in the age bracket 30-39 (maybe also late 20’s) gather and communicate? Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups in your church that I can attend and develop friendships?

Regards,

Torsten Nenzén

Email: torsten@nenzen.net

Torsten

If you want to know more about my leadership you contact the Seven Day Adventist conference office the name the person concern is Pr Chris Foote he will tell you if I am the leader or not and I run Adventist singles ministry .

Hi Torsten

The time is 9-30 am for sabbath school and Devine service is 11 am . Location is Mitchenton church on Blackwood st and Ruby st .. if you remember I have given this address in my previous email and ask you if you were and Adventist as you have said no you are a Christian . As far as me been the leader you are right we run a ministry .so if you want to know more you will have to come to Michetion church and we will tell you where we going to be next as you must appreciate we want to know you as these dates I do know them but I have a responsibility not to give them to anyone who just ask for them I told you what we do we take sabbath school and Devine service if you have never been to our church how can I explain to you what we do that why I ask you if you have a phone number that we can contact you but you said no . I'm would be very happy to see you at Mitchenton church on the 31 of may 9-30 for sabbath school and Devine service at 11 am .God bless Haydee :-)

Haydee,

So far, you have provided no usable information, which I presume might be your intention.

You have provided a date and the name of a church. You have not disclosed a time.

You have not disclosed a schedule of planned events. Is there is schedule of planned events?

How is information regarding time/location communicated to the group? How many persons are in the group?

I was provided your email address by an SDA leader who asserted that you are the leader of the SDA singles.

Are you the leader or organiser of the SDA singles? If you are not the leader, then please provide the email address to the person who is in charge.

Regards,

Torsten

Torsten can you tell me who gave you mine email address ?

Hi Torsten

Yes the next date like I told you is 31 of may at mitchelton church Blackwood street and Ruby street . We then can tell you about our next meeting with will be some where in Brisbane .

God bless Haydee

Hello Haydee,

I am a Christian. I am in Brisbane.

What are the dates that the SDA singles worship, and where? If you do not have a website of information, then how is information regarding time/place communicated?

Regards,

Torsten

Hi Torsten

Where about are you if you tell me where you are then I would know with cofercnce to refer you to as we have different date that we worship .we don't have a website as such but here in Brisbane we meet at various church's and take sabbath school and do Devin sevice the one in May we are going to just join in with the congregation of Mitchelton church as most of us wants to lessen to Lindy Chamberlain so if you want to come you would bemost welcome to join us . One things I want to know are you an Adventist ? .

God bless haydee

Good morning Haydee,

I do not have phone.

Does the SDA singles have a website with information? If not, then please send the program details and schedule by email. Thanks.

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Good morning how are you ? Its haydee here I don't remember who you are .. the singles will meet at the Michelton church on the 31 of may lindy Chamberlain is speaking there we meet as ministry once a month the last one was our camp at Mujimba Epex on the sunshine coast .and if you want to find out more you can come and join us as we are going to listen to lindy Chamberlain in the next few weeks .if you to know more leave me your mobile phone or home phone I would be very happy to give you more details . God bless Haydee

Hello Chris Foote,

Twice I have contacted Haydee on the email address that you provided. Haydee has not replied.

When and where do the SDA singles meet?

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi - a second time,

Why did you not reply to my first email?

When and where do the SDA singles meet?

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Send an email to Haydee, the leader.

quilt53@live.com.au is her email address.

Regards from the UK where I am at present

Chris

Hi Chris Foote,

Thanks for your brief info. How does one connect with QASAM?

Torsten Nenzen

Hi Torsten,

Thanks for your email. We don’t have any Church that is specifically focused on getting singles together as you suggest. As single people tend to be very mobile, they often go to where they find others, and the criteria will be different for each person, as all people have slightly different personal needs.

Some of the larger Adventist Churches around Brisbane are likely to have higher numbers of single people in the age bracket you suggest simply because the overall numbers of attendees is higher, such as Springwood, Mt Gravatt, Ipswich, Caboolture, etc. To find out more about these churches or where they are located, you can just Google the word adventist along with that suburb (i.e. Springwood adventist) and you should discover their webpage which will have address etc under the Contact Us tab.

We do hold special events from time to time, as part of our QASAM program – Queensland Adventist Single Adult Ministry – but these are just from time to time, and are more focussed on the older sector of singles, from 35 and over.

You may also like to check out the national website for singles ministry –http://www.adventistsingles.net.au/

Hope that helps a little

Chris

South Queensland Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

cfoote@adventist.org.au

Mobile: 0416 146 468

Hi Andre,

Thanks for your reply.

I have now sent an email inquiry to Chris Foote regarding meetings for also Christian singles.

Today, there was no group meeting in the Gazebo. Last week, there was.

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Dear SDA Church Brisbane,

Hi.

I am a Christian here in Brisbane. I seek a Christian community in Brisbane where I might find opportunities to fellowship, socialise, meet and talk with also Christian singles.

Are there occasions of fellowship in your congregation where also single Christians in the age bracket 30-39 (maybe also late 20’s) gather and communicate? Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups in your church that I can attend and develop friendships?

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzén

Email: torsten@nenzen.net

Hi Andre,

Thanks for a phone number to the Conference Office. I don't have phone. But I do have internet and email. Is there an email address to Conference Office?

Also, thanks for advising again that there are two groups.

Who organises the 20's group? How do I contact that person? What is the email address?

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi,

I think Pr Chris Foote might be in charge. If not he might be able to tell you in the conference office to talk to. His email is ChrisFoote@adventist.org.au

There's really no one leader for the small group. That why I'd suggest it best to just come along to Sabbath School on Saturday morning and firstly find out if you connect with the group and/or the group connects with you. You can also find out through them when and where they're meeting for the next week. They meet in the Gazebo between the church and hall for Sabbath School Discussion.

Hope this helps.

God bless,

Pr André

Hi Torsten,

I'm not sure what the singles events are that the Office currently have organised. You'd need to talk to them. The Conference Office are our Church's Headquarters here in South Queensland. They coordinate different events across all the churches in our conference among other things. The best way to contact them is to ring them up Mon-Fri 9-5. 32187777. Have a talk to the receptionist and ask them if you can talk to the person who looks after the Singles Ministries. They should be able to direct you from there.

Regarding the small group. The group is mainly made of young 20s with about 2/3 in couples. Not sure if that would suit you or maybe the small group at church. Both meet on Wednesday night at 7pm. However the location of the young 20s changes from week to week. The best thing might be to connect with one of them at church on Sabbath and find out from them where they're meeting. I'm not sure what's happening this week as I know a number of them can't make it due to work commitments.

Anyway, I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

God bless,

Pr André

Dear Pine Rivers SDA Church,

Hi.

Which are the singles events of the Conference Office? Who is the Conference Office, how is the Conference Office contacted, and what is the email address to the Conference Office?

When/where does the 20’s group meet? How is the group contacted?

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzén

Email: torsten@nenzen.net

Hi Torsten,

Unfortunately there are no ‘Singles’ group within our local church. I know that our local Conference Office do hold some ‘Singles’ events every now and then in various parts around Brisbane. If you want to contact them you can to find out where and when they are being held.

We do however have a number of small prayer groups that meet during the week.

We have a group that meets every Tuesday night up near the Glass House Mountains. We have a slightly older age group that meet at the church every Wednesday morning. We also have 2 groups that meet every Wednesday night. One is an early 20s age group. The other group meets in the Church at 7pm in one of the Children’s Sabbath School Rooms. There are a variety of ages that turn up for that one. I’d suggest maybe try that one first and see if that suits what you’re looking for. Time is spent talking, praying and reading the Bible.

I hope this helps you in your search for finding somewhere where you can find fulfilment.

Hope you’re having a great week.

God bless,

Pr André

Dear Pine Rivers SDA Church,

Hi.

I am a Christian here in Brisbane. I seek a Christian community in Brisbane where I might find opportunities to fellowship, socialise, meet and talk with also Christian singles.

Are there occasions of fellowship in your congregation where also single Christians in the age bracket 30-39 (maybe also late 20’s) gather and communicate? Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups in your church that I can attend and develop friendships?

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzén

Email: torsten@nenzen.net

------------------------- racism -------------------------

Hi Andre Hamilton,

Thanks for two exhaustive answers.

I will explore more regarding point two. For some individuals, confronting a presumed offender is difficult. From a leadership perspective, there are multiple ways to address racism on a group level without accentuating aspects of blame and guilt. In individual cases, I agree that such issues should be dealt with in a direct manner between the individuals. Racism is complicated, and even the best of congregations can benefit from moral philosophy and practical ethics related to human dignity.

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi Torsten,

1. Regarding a leader for the small group, there is not an overall leader. What you will find is that within the group different people do different things. For the Sabbath School you will find that the organising is shared between Justin, Carla and Darren. Darren started the Sabbath School class last year to meet the need for the age group. But Carla and Justin are the overall leaders for the Adult Sabbath School Classes. What that means is that they are the leaders for all the Sabbath School Classes that meet each week and they organise the worship segment that happens before we separate for the smaller classes. With regards to the Wednesday night programs, the teachers normally talk and organise that at school or at the small group on Wednesday night they make a decision for where it’ll be the following week and who will lead out. The Small group was formed initially as a friendship group and has grown since then. As such there is no ‘leader’ per say but decisions are based on a general consensus. On different days different people suggest different things and make decisions. That’s why it works so well.

2. Regarding racism in our church. I would suggest that you should be careful before passing judgement that the church is full of racist people. I can emphatically state that our church works so well because of all the different ethnic backgrounds that we have and how they work well together. You will find that for a number of socials or small groups, there may be a number of people with the same ethnicity, but that is their own choice and desire and passion. A lot of the time they do that so they can invite new immigrants from their homeland along to a small group where they can feel comfortable and at home. But at large, the church works together as a whole, it doesn’t matter what background you have or what colour skin you are. I can state that for the time that I have been at Pine Rivers I have not heard of any issue between anyone because of their different backgrounds.

However, it would seem that maybe you have heard differently. If that is the case, then I would suggest what I tell our members to do in in circumstance when someone has wronged another, follow the biblical principle. Firstly go and talk to the person who has wronged you, maybe they did not mean what they said in the way that it was understood. If this does not clear the issue, which a lot of the time it doesn’t, then take along someone else with you to talk to them. In these instances I suggest one of our church Elders or myself as the Pastor. We then have a little talk and sort through what happened. If it was a misunderstanding we attempt to reconcile the relationship. If it wasn’t a misunderstanding then we attempt to work with the other person and sort through the issues and help them grow so they don’t make the same mistakes again. This is the Biblical method and by far, the best way of bringing reconciliation to the person who has been wronged.

What I would suggest is that you ask the person who has been wronged to come and talk to me about it. That way I can work with them and sort through the issue. If people are feeling that way, it is in no way a healthy way to live. But they need to let me know.

However in no way do I need to get up and tell the entire church off for being racist as that is a long way from the truth. The church is a loving, caring and accepting family to all people, of all backgrounds and all skin colours.

I sincerely hope that these points have answered your questions.

I am sorry if you feel that Pine Rivers isn’t the church that I see and know it to be.

I hope you have a great and blessed week.

God bless,

Pr André Hamilton.

Hi Andre Hamilton,

I have two concerns. One of the concerns simply requires a bit of an explanation. The other concern I demand immediate action.

1. It seems from others that there is a leader to that small group, after all. I think I did give that leader my contact details but that leader never contacted. Why did you state that there is no one leader to that small group?

2. In my observations, there appears to be some ethnic divisions of your church. If these ethnic divisions are self-determined and fully content, then all is OK. But persons who I have spoken with in your church have confirmed to me that is not always the case.

"I sometimes feel alienated, especially with negative comments people make about [nationality/ethnicity]. It puts me off. And people judge me sometimes because of the colour of my skin. Though sometimes it puts me down I must admit. But who cares. Life goes on."

I hereby demand that you, as their local leader, publicly address racism. Racism or derogatory comments about nationalities or race is absolutely unacceptable and must be [stopped] immediately. It must be hammered into the minds of every congregant of your church that racial remarks can be hurtful, and must stop immediately.

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen